Rhino - Autocad - Revit - Linking Complex Form to Drive Massing
Tags: AutoCAD, Complex Geometry, Exporting, Revit, Rhino 3dGet the Flash Player to see this player.
Software : Rhino 4, Autocad 2009, and Revit Architecture 2009
Level : Intermediate
Description : This Revit Architecture 2009 video tutorial covers how to import geometry from Rhino via Autocad. Really this technique will work for any program that can output a .sat. Even if the program cannot, Rhino imports many formats (such as .step or .iges) which you can then export as a .sat for AutoCAD. The basic logic in this tutorial is to create a tower which has geometry too complex to build in Revit. We then pass it through AutoCAD to export a closed solid .dwg with layers. As of now Rhino only exports .dwg files as meshes (which do not work very well for massing objects) . We then run a few simple Massing operations such as scheduling, creating floors, and creating walls. Lastly, we create a new mass from Rhino and re-import the geometry to have all our schedules update. Here is a link to the source files on the forum.
Topics Covered
-Exporting from Rhino
-Import .sat to Autocad
-Importing geometry for Massing in Revit
-Creating floors from a Massing in Revit
-Simple Massing schedule
-Creating walls from a Mass
-Updating the Mass by re-importing geometry
Here is a link to the source files on the forum
Creative Commons
DesignReform.net by David Fano is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License.
Based on a work at designreform.net.
Hello Dave. Oh this is a great tutorial. I made all this on my desktop.BUT i have some questions :
1.Walls that i made in Revit I cant split, cut, trim ? How to make some peace of this complex geometry with glass?
2. In facade i dont see all geometry of complex walls?
On the Forum i put my university work.
Thanks for answers.
Dave,
You can select multiple rows in a schedule (but only adjacent ones). Just drag select; when you have multiple rows highlighted (highlit?), switch to a graphical view and hit the properties button. You can then fill out the desired element parameter(s) for the selected items through the properties dialog.
p.s. Design ReForm simply rocks.
Great tutorial Dave! Thanks a lot for your time and effort.
José Espizua
Right on! That was good.
Dave, what was grasshopper used to create? Almost could of done that easy in Revit if it had more then a 2 profile sweep.
well that’s a big if
you would have to make this with multiple sweeps which would not allow for surface continuity. But the bigger idea here was to show how to go between the programs and use each one for what it’s good at.
http://designreform.net/forum/index.php/topic,737.0.html
Dave, when you convert the walls to a curtain system, is there a way to triangulate glass patterns? I went through the excercise above and my building form is too tight and the envelope doesnt work well with four sided panels, the seams of the panels are not joining.
You may have to use a mesh then. If you use a mesh you can make each face a panel. I would probably have 2 masses one for walls and floors. the another (mesh) for curtain panels.
I tried the mesh, I cant export a mesh as acis sat file. Any thoughts?
I get it now, I exported the mesh for curtain panels as dwg and another solid mass as acis. I see what you mean by
“As of now Rhino only exports .dwg files as meshes (which do not work very well for massing objects)”
So the solid mass gets used to extract mass data, area, etc……
Great, thanks again!
Great information Dave,
I have a fairly solid understanding of Rhino and 3ds Max but have previously struggled getting the geometry across from one to the other (modelling in Rhino rendering in Max). It is a shame that there isn’t a less tedious way to export “clean” geometry across that will allow me to edit it in max if required and get the best out of the renders. Would love to see a plug in or script to help with this. While you were talking about exporting to get into Revit the principles are still the same and how you go from one application to another can mean hours of headarches or a seamless workflow.
Thanks for showing this method.
Hello Dave…I really enjoy your site
I was looking over this tutorial…and realized that you can totally skip importing into acutocad…
Revit lets you import sat files.. Revit does not work well with dwg exported from rhino, but sat files from rhino work just like dwgs from autocad….So inother words you can import Your sat file from revit..and do all the exact same steps you did in your revit tutorial….
Fabian
Matt,
I have used the NPower plugin to go from Rhino to Max. It actually brings the Nurb geometry into Max very close to how it was in Rhino…I would recomend it for Rhino to Max rendering pipline. You have to pay more for the tools to edit the nurb model in Max, which I have not done yet, but would like to.
Thanks for site Dave!
Will
Fabian,
When you exported from Rhino, what ACIS format did you use? ACAD, default, etc.? When I brought the ACIS file from Rhino to Revit I got a “mesh” warning. It may not be a big deal, but I’m curious why the ACAD flow is involved. Dave, is it really that easy? Great tutorial!
James
it is that easy…I leave the ACIS format at default..and the reason you get that “mesh error” is beacuse you are extruding a surface and not a solid…example: if you extrude a circle into a cylinder then export it as an ACIS file and try to put it into revit it will give you the mesh error…meaning you can not use this mesh to create mass flooring….But if you use the same extruded cylinder and cap both ends (planar srf) and join them before exporting - then you will not get that error message… which will then give you a massing object that can now be used to create mass flooring.. You can totally skip importing into AutoCAD. As a matter of fact I don’t even have AutoCAD Installed……Its that simple
Right on…I missed the JOIN part….I’m all over it. Thanks man, James
ok, sorry i did not make this very clear at first…..
YES, you can skip autocad. BUT, In my experience the solid dwg’s tend to be lighter than the .sat straight from Rhino. In fact we always did the direct Rhino -> Revit transfer and then tried this technique and found revit to move much smoother.
The other aspect to this technique that makes it worth while is layers. When you bring in a .sat file from Rhino verything is on the same 0 layer. If you go though Autocad you can place geometry on different layers and have a bit more control of line weights through objects styles.
Hope that helps, i’ll try and sum this up and edit the post.
Thanks,
Dave
Hi Dave,
I am still looking for a link between your model in cad and revit, why you re-import the mass whiles there is Link option in Revit? and why this link option was not enable in your Import Dialog box?
I am too used to the .sat importer. I have not tried linking a solid dwg. Did you? How does it work?
Thanks,
Dave
Hi,
I tried to link the CAD file inside the mass family, but the link option was not enabled.
so I import CAD file directly in revit using Link option and then I made a copy of this system family inside the mass family, it worked! .
Now you can use Manage Links from file menu to reload your DWG file in Revit.you dont need to keep main instance which you have imported at first in the Revit, you can remove it.
[...] Learn how to link complex organic geometry that was modeled in Rhino into Revit as a mass element [...]
Hi Dave,
Thanks again for the great video. I was wondering if you know of a way to export a polymesh from rhino into autocad as an IGES files or how to convert a mesh into a solid. I am trying to model terrain and the CNC guy needs a IGES file but I cant export IGES from rhino as a mesh.
An extremely informative, concise, and very easy to follow tutorial. I am just learning the basics of Revit, and from your small tutorial showed many aspects and techniques that displays the power of the BIM software. Thank you!
Secondly, I know the ability of other 3d software has far more potential that what AutoCAD can do with solids (using polylines to create solid objects and 3d faces), but was wondering if you knew the LOFT command in AutoCAD. I have used this in many conceptual models to create an airplane wing, mechanical transition, all the way to the “tower” design you put together quickly.
To use LOFT. Execute the command, then select the polylines in the order you want the solid to be created. This command does a seamless interpolated AutoCAD solid of the polylines you created.
[...] 4.这是一个从Rhino建模到Revit变成建筑体量的实际操作，嗯，不错可以学一下： http://designreform.net/2008/07/17/rhino-autocad-revit-linking-complex-form-to-drive-massing/ [...]
[...] tutorial sobre Rhino, AutoCAD 2009 e Revit pode ser encontrado em vídeo, nesse [...]
[...] http://designreform.net/2008/07/17/rhino-autocad-revit-linking-complex-form-to-drive-massing/ [...]
This was a fantastic tutorial and was crucial for a complicated exercise. Thanks a bunch . . .
Okay so I exported to an .sat file and then imported it in autocad and saved. then imported in revit, but it still says my mass is a mesh file. I lofted it together in rhino. PLEASE HELP!
Waw!
Amazing tutorial…you made a dream come through!!!
Respect!
Hey.
I have followed this tutorial, and it seems very cool… I have also tried it, and yes it works… I am currently the CAD manager of a very complex project, that is being build in Rhino…. We are moving into Detailed Design, and I would really like my revit model to be as precise as it is drawn in Rhino…
I used to do a project in ACA doing the following steps…. Rhino export to SAT(autocad)….. import in ACA and turn into mass elements… the method of exporting sat by autocad and not default from Rhino, made the 3D solids right (without the triangulation). With the masselement I could control the display, or even turn it into a wall…!
What annoys me is that, we have now switched to Revit, and the Revit only lets me convert faces to walls, floors ect….. When adding a wall to a face, the wall only “extrudes” from the face in a “perpendicular” way…which means that it won’t make the whole object into a wall…!
Is there any way you can get everything from the shape of Rhino model turned into a “building component” (wall ect) in Revit, without having to attach it to a surface….? If this means taking it over ACA, it is ok…!
An alternative is to use the “Edit cut profile” button, but that only works in 2D plan view…!
If this makes sense, I hope some of you can help me out…Please…!
You can make an in-place family and import the Rhino model in the appropiate category. If you import it in a wall family the imported geometry will behave as a wall, which enables you to host doors and windows.
Thanks Pete…. I’ll have a look at it….
I have tried to do an in-place family as a wall…then imported the sat-file created in Rhino….and well…. it tells me that it is a wall, but not in the type selector, and it is not possible to add a door, window ect nor to change the display settings of the object….. Pete…do you have an answer here…. ? Thanks
What happens when you ad a door or a window?
Hey David I loved your tutorial, thank you so much for it, anyways I have tried to generate some shells structure and essentially transfer the whole building I created around it to revit. I am not familiar with grasshopper, and I tried to create a .sat file straight from Rhino and transfer it autocad and than to revit. but revit did not recognized it as a massing as the end result. even though it shows in autocad as a massing. does grasshopper has something to do with it or am I doing something wrong?
Thank for your attention
Hey Pete
It’s possible to ad a wall or a door when I have done an in place family…But I still haven’t solved the issue of having the exact geometry from Rhino turned into a “buildingcomponent” in revit…Without having to build them from the imported surface….. I have talked to several experts of Revit, and this is still not possible…not even in REVIT2010…. It’s now gonna be on the wish list for the coming versions…..! Still think it’s strange that you can do it in ACA, and not in Revit, coming from the same company….!
Cheers..:-)
Is it possible to use voids on the mass once you import it as a generic model?
Can you use voids to cut/slice a mass you have created in Rhino?
Thanks!
I don’t think you can void imported geometry
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[...] This Revit Architecture 2009 video tutorial covers how to create and control schedules. In this tutorial we schedule different wall types to manage the quantities of a buildings facade. Watch Video [...]
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Thank You for the tutorial. I did to make a complex form and integrate it with Revit.
You really helped me in a hard time
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just a heads up in case any of you are struggling getting complex forms into revit. I did as the tutorial explained but because of the curving nature of the object it left out some surfaces. I found that if you save it as a .3ds out of rhino, open with 3ds max and then save as .dwg not only is your file size MUCH smaller revit also has a much easier time reading it. Just wanted to share that!
Those would be meshes. You loose functionality in Revit by doing that.
True, however at this point simply getting it into revit was a huge accomplishment. I was still able to apply matierial properties and cut sections which is really all that I will need to do. Any other way you suggest other than what you reccomend?
Hi, Would anyone know how to work with models taken from 3ds max in revit?
Dave, thanks for a great tutorial. This may be a silly question but how did you set up your rhino workspace? Your workspace in the video resembles that of SketchUp and I quite like it. Wondering if you made any changes to your setting?
great tutorial
is there anything i can do to reduce the amount of memory required…I tried the tutorial’s workflow…i made a tower in rhino but this time twisting and leaning with diagrid walls…so the diagrid systems are really free form….How do you convert that to revit? What I have done so far is convert the diagrid as curtain wall system or as mullions…but it slows down revit…is it much easier in autocad architecture?
thanks,dave
Hi Dave,
So it’s been about two years since you posted this tutorial. Unfortunately, it seems like the options for importing Rhino geometry into Revit have scarcely improved. As far as I know, you are still limited to the basic operations as demonstrated in this tutorial. In other words, it becomes very difficult to refine imported geometry for use with curtainwall systems, inserting components, etc. If you know of any advances in this domain, please do let me know!
Thanks,
Marc
Unfortunately, they have not changed much…
I have been attempting to get a very complex Rhino geometry into Revit using this method, but I end up with a highly meshed triangulated surface by the time it ends up in Revit, in which it is essentially useless in my CD set because the mesh is so dense, it reads as a mass of black, which will become a huge issue when we print the CDs. Are you aware of any method to make Revit only display and print the outline of the object?